Lab job letters

[Octavia]

Oh, this is fantastic...
Great job Steven! I get some of these too (addressed to Dear Professor) even though I'm clearly just a postdoc and this is plain to see on the labs website should the candidate have bothered to look up the lab...

http://www.lablit.com/article/668

[Mad Dan Eccles]

Pre-internet, you might have understood it. But since WAIS... nah, lazy bastards.

[scaplan]

@Octavia,

The very first such letter I received was in 1991, when I had just published my very first paper. I had 2 co-mentors, in different departments with different interests, and when it came time to write the paper, I naively put myself down as "corresponding author", since I assumed that I was better equipped than either mentor to answer any questions. Then I began receiving applications for post-doctoral positions...

[scaplan]

@Mad Dan Eccles

Lazy, for sure--but certainly no one has ever explained to many of these would-be post-docs how the system works--or asked how they would respond if someone sent them a return e-mail saying:

"Dear student",

I read your CV and was very much interested in your work on "CUT OUT OF CV AND PASTE HERE". However, in my lab we work on "CUT OUT OF MY OWN WEBSITE AND PASTE HERE". etc. etc.

Maybe that would do the trick? But I doubt it.

[Joao]

Great piece! (love the names)
The spouse one is particularly revealing...
I get a lot of similar ones, some more focused, some less. The less focused ones I don't even bother saving anymore.
For the more focused ones, and since I too was once an eager ignorant from FarFaraway U (take the next right after the Oblivia exit) who really wanted to get the heck out of there, I do have a few standard reply emails on file, asking which of my wonderful papers the candidate is so smitten with (and why), and how s/he thinks that specific research could be furthered. That narrows in down quickly. I also tell them to bother colleagues in the US, land of opportunity... (sorry Steve). Funny enough, several of them actually seemed to think I am based there, so yet another example of lack of effort.

Two other types emails in the same vein (i.e., sometimes in my field of interest, sometimes on wild tangents) that start out the same way (How wonderful I am, etc):
1- Invitations to write review articles/edit issues for online journals I never heard of (oh, and by the way, there are these publication/editing/proofreading fees... but hey: find a few friends who pay the fees and we'll waive yours!)
2- Invitations to speak at meetings with fancy names but in places beyond Oblivia (oh, and by the way, here are the registration fees, and you pay everything else as well).
Irrelevant CV can really be bought these days. Its like the scientific version of the vanity publisher Manuzio, in Umberto Ecco's Foucaults Pendulum. But, like email scams,I have to wonder if this sort of stuff works often enough.

[scaplan]

Thanks, Joao--seems like these letters are recycled to everyone. As for the publishing companies and meetings, we get a lot of those as well, and had quite a discussion about them at Occam's Typewriter awhile back (http://occamstypewriter.org/stevecaplan ... e-is-this/).

Just today I received a new type of job request--a new type of "flattery" by someone who did a little more homework, but not the right kind...


Steve Caplan

Associate Professor Biochemistry and Molecular Biology

University of Nebraska Medical center


Dear Dr. Caplan,

At the very first I would like to congratulate you for “Matter Over Mind” which was selected as a Quarter Finalist for the Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award (ABNA).

I am writing you to inquire a postdoctoral position in your laboratory. Being a PhD in Biochemistry I am confident that my profile suits for your laboratory... etc., etc.

[Mad Dan Eccles]

ha ha! Can't blame them for trying...

[Dr Mike]

I've always felt a bit sorry for these people. I think most of them are from foreign countries and they probably honestly don't know that it's not the done thing to send form letters or to pick labs at random - and I'm guessing they are probably desperate for a job to be doing that so I find it a bit uncomfortable to make fun of them from my relatively privileged position.

[Mad Dan Eccles]

Maybe then this will teach a few.

[The Prof]

I suspect things are a bit different in the home countries from whence some of these letters originate. The 'esteemed' this and that, for example. What sounds to our ears like painful arse-kissing might actually perfectly conventional in other places, a level of demanded formality and respect. I don't understand the 'chatty' informal ones - I doubt that's the norm anywhere. Some of the more amusing ones on Steve's list could be ascribed to language differences ... "if you feel good" might actually mean something like "If this application is acceptable to you" or "if you are favorably disposed".

I guess bottom line, if you want a job in a foreign country you should ask a native for advice about norms. For example, I learned the hard way as a student, requesting reagents, that a German lab head really, truly does want to be addressed as "Professor Doctor".

[Joao]

Language can't really be a problem for me, for obvious reasons, I'm used to questionable phrase construction in two of them. There are also crucial differences between countries in terms of financing that they have no way of knowing, which is why I have the Portuguese scenario on file to copy-paste at will (though I have no idea what that is going to be in the near future- not good, is my guess).
The problem is really the focus of any given query. For any type of job, anywhere, you have to know something of what you are applying for, and with whom.
I might add I have a few queries from countries that surprise even me, including my own. So much so, that this year I felt the need of neglecting some signaling pathway or another to have a class/discussion with undergraduates on how to approach prospective employers/PIs, training opportunities, etc, especially since I think many will have to try their luck abroad.

[Editor]

Yes, no one wants to hire someone who doesn't truly want to be specifically in THEIR lab - and a letter must demonstrate that the prospective candidate can explain what - exactly - it is about the research that has captivated him. It's probably pretty easy to fake an interest, what with the nice general summaries on most lab web pages, which is why it surprises me why so few even bother.

I recently got a letter addressed to 'Professor Rohn' and instead of deleting it as usual, I let rip. I told the person that if they'd bothered to look on the lab webpage they'd notice that I was a post-doc and therefore (a) not a professor and (b) not in a position to hire, and (c) what I worked on bore no resemblance to the topic the candidate claimed an interest in. The person replied, quite angry actually, and I explained why I wasn't being offensive, just truthful, and after a few more exchanges I think the person was finally starting to understand. It transpired it was one of those "my husband got a job in London" deals and she was incredibly desperate. Ultimately, she thanked me for my advice, but I dropped the correspondence when she asked me to send her lists of people who were hiring. I don't understand why people seem so loathe to put in the hours needed to choose prospective labs. It's all there on the internet for the taking.

[scaplan]

Sometimes, it seems as if that is what you/we get for displaying a level of empathy--a brief flash of apparent understanding, followed by behavior that completely erases any hope that we have made an impact by imparting "wisdom" about how to go about getting a job.

I have been similarly "burned" after making an effort to instruct people about what NOT to do, and "How NOT to get a lab job" perhaps reflects my frustration. Of course even making an impact with a few applicants will not change the flow of the hundreds of these letters that stream in to my inbox each year, but at least I would know that someone out there is starting to realize that the approach matters. Unfortunately, even those few are rare.

Once I received a letter from an applicant who wrote at great length about how he wanted to work on translational science and particularly on cancer, and that is why he chose my lab. I actually wrote back and explained that I do not do ANY translational work, and its all basic cell biology and that he should look at the websites before writing. The rapid reply was suddenly accompanied by a dramatic, if somewhat insincere "change-of-heart" professing a deep desire to do basic research on "CUT AND PASTE FROM MY WEBSITE IN THE SAME FONT AND SIZE ETC"

At this point, Jenny, I did what you did and decided I would not waste any more time educating this individual...

[Editor]

OMG, what a story! That's utterly shocking!

p.s. I've left a comment on your blog. For anyone who missed it, Steve has blogged about some of the (completely misguided, IMO) criticism leveled at him in the wake of his piece:

Steve's blog: http://occamstypewriter.org/stevecaplan ... f-context/

The main critic: http://physicsworld.com/blog/2011/06/th ... _funn.html

Am rather shocked by how much people are mistaking critiquing an approach with Steve's views about the underlying issue - which in fact he never mentioned in the piece as it was moot. The Physics World blog in particular shows a complete disconnect between the aim of the piece (to show how not to write a letter) and how it was actually interpreted - Steve thinking women scientists are inferior and the 2-body problem is trivial. Where on earth did that come from?

What do you guys think of this? Am I missing something?

[Joao]

Readers confusing some issues in a written piece about prospective employment with the positions of the author on wider issues such as (presumably in this case) feminism, immigration, race, colonialism? And then climbing on various pet soapboxes regardless of whether or not they are pertinent? Why I never...

Seriously, I'm surprised you were surprised, and actually expected backlash/comments on more issues the moment I read the piece, from people a) that just like to voice PC dissent; b) who work in cultural studies and read the subtext of these exchanges; c) who actually were at one point on the other side of those letters (or know someone who was).
Not because I agree with it, but because it is kind of par for the course.
As I hinted above somewhere, I was in position c) a while back and can both relate to why these things are written, understand what they represent, and marvel at how ruefully inadequate (and, yes, funny) many are.