teach less

From information overload to increasing worries about technological backlash, the drive to explain science to the public, and to make it more appealing to them, has never been stronger.

Moderator: amy c.

teach less

Postby amy c. on Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:42 am

Bah. On top of being disease-riddled, I got dressing-downs (dressings-down?) today from two bosses, each of whom wanted me to teach less. I get the impression that this is my last chance with the engineering writing center -- I critique and grade the quality of the writing in student lab reports. On the whole, it's...well, it's appallingly bad. It's appallingly bad even after the kids come in and sit for an hour with student helpers who rewrite bits of the reports for them. So I do my usual red-pen job (well, not anymore; I was told not to use red ink, as it scares the kids), ignoring most of the grammatical hash and leaving them notes about organization and quality of argument, or the fact that some form of argument is in fact necessary if they're going support a conclusion, instead. Or that they must explain what the experiment is meant to show, and how. Or that the reader is not in fact inside their heads. Or that if the client has asked them to recommend A, B, or C, they can't suggest D (or, worse, say, "none of the choices are good" and stop there) without a lot of phone calls and maybe a marriage. Or...well, you get the picture. Too many notes, you see. I write too many. I suspect my friend/boss is having his tail stood on by faculty who think writing centers are a waste of money during a 10% universitywide budget cut, so I didn't ask him which notes I ought to take out. But the kids were apparently "flummoxed" and "despairing" and "tuned out" after getting back the last set I marked up. I think a little despair's a healthy thing now and then, but we're not to make them despair. We're to gently encourage, praise. They're scared of writing. We should be grateful that they try.

I stood there blinking at my friend as he told me this; he's a poet, a rather good one, and he's had to teach creative-writing classes before. I always gave creative-writing students good grades if it was clear that they were working. After all, I figured, if they write terrible stories, it doesn't kill anyone. Sure, write puppy porn, no actual puppies are likely to be harmed. But if engineers can't make themselves understood, then yes, I can see people winding up maimed and dead. If they're scared of writing then maybe they ought to go home, or do less consequential work. I think something more than self-esteem-building is required.

The K12 science editor's just desperate for the books to sell before the school districts run out of Obama stimulus money (too late). I should "hit the standards" and forget everything else. Like this section on diffusion, there's nothing in the standards for diffusion about concentration; I can take that out. No, I won't, I tell her; they don't understand what 'concentration' means, they mix it up with 'amount', and if they get that wrong, they won't understand the explanation of diffusion. She'll take it out herself, I'm sure.

Excuse me, Taplow's here with some rotten old book. Gotta run. Stay away from sick people, by the way. Only good thing about this flu is its timing. No snow in the driveway.
Us, Robots: a Two Cultures blog
********************
Avast, I am the errant chunk of baguette.
amy c.
 
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Iowa City

Re: teach less

Postby Dr Mike on Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:29 pm

Amy - does a good engineer really need to write and persuade?

Shoot me if this is a silly question.
Bollocks. I was so excited about showing off my lipid-based prowess I failed to notice that Chall was talking about Dick.
Dr Mike
 
Posts: 1000
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:53 am

Re: teach less

Postby amy c. on Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:08 am

All those expensive thoughts have to make it out of his head somehow, Dr. Mike. He'll need to build a case for his conclusion if he's asked to evaluate anything and report, and he'll need to be able to explain how he knows what he knows. If he's not buried in layers of engineers, he'll have to be able to explain himself to non-engineer clients or managers. He may have to respond to RFPs. He also needs to be able to communicate with other engineers and with contractors in a way that's not glued together with "y'know what I mean". And of course if he's an academic, he'll have to be able to write reports and proposals, and give talks.

I suspect that the most valuable thing that comes out of their report-writing evaluation isn't so much the instruction in putting the words together on paper; it's the fact that their thought is exposed. Many of them aren't thinking terribly clearly. Not tragic unless no one's willing to do sit with them and say, "And how do you know. And this means what. And how does this show that. And why are you telling your reader this. And the point of this project was to what. And these results mean what."
Us, Robots: a Two Cultures blog
********************
Avast, I am the errant chunk of baguette.
amy c.
 
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Iowa City

Re: teach less

Postby Beatrice on Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:03 am

Amy, have you chatted to any of these kids? I know some people who are very persuasive and eloquent verbally, but can't seem to use the medium of writing. And vice versa, of course. Just curious if it's overall failure, or failure of the medium.

In Biology at least, papers are not written by one person. You start out with a first author who may or may not be able to write - they may be foreign. This draft is often dreadful and incomprehensible. The manuscript is passed to other authors and the lab head, and then colleagues, and at the end it's polished and persuasive. It is perfectly possible to have a successful academic career if English is not your first language or if you're not very good at writing. And thank goodness for that, because it's hardly the same skill set. A great scientists who's not a good writer is a common thing and I'm glad they can still thrive in the system.
User avatar
Beatrice
 
Posts: 678
Joined: Tue May 17, 2005 10:06 pm

Re: teach less

Postby amy c. on Sun Oct 25, 2009 4:41 pm

It's a good question, Bea, and I wish I knew firsthand. The grad students who work in the writing center are the ones who actually get to sit down with the engineering students, and from what they say, I gather that it's some of each -- some kids have it all upstairs and can speak well, but can't figure out what to do with paper, and some just seem to bypass communication altogether. That by itself is a big hurdle -- the understanding that it isn't enough to be able to find/define/solve the problems; you have to be able to tell someone else about it. In English, sometimes.

That's interesting, too, about the biology papers. It sounds as though somewhere on the team you'll have a few people who can write, and they'll do considerable editing. Is that so?

I'd better get to some tea and that paper set. This H1N1 is a hanger-on. Slept 13 hours last night.
Us, Robots: a Two Cultures blog
********************
Avast, I am the errant chunk of baguette.
amy c.
 
Posts: 985
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:23 pm
Location: Iowa City

Re: teach less

Postby hedge on Tue Nov 03, 2009 9:57 pm

There are definitely a few scientists who can write who end up editing everyone else's papers. I've been in quite a few labs by now and it's always the same. There are just so many foreigners about - including the lab heads. Science might grind to a halt without these unsung heroes.

Mind you, they usually are sung a little - name mentioned in the formal Acknowledgments section.

Some journals now offer an 'English language polishing' service - you can pay to get submitted manuscripts cleaned up before it is sent to peer review. I understand these services are very popular in China.(Although cleaning up Chinese English is usually pretty straightforward - they just miss out articles and endings but the words themselves tend to be in the right order. Papers written by authors whose native tongue has a different syntax - eg. German, Dutch, Spanish - is a nightmare to edit.)
I don't know an ass neuron from an elbow neuron.
User avatar
hedge
 
Posts: 637
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2005 7:34 pm

Re: teach less

Postby Octavia on Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:43 pm

I am one of those editor types! I have to admit I really enjoy it, though it certainly takes a lot of time. I look at is as important as helping someone out in the lab. Science is all about helping your colleagues - and it always comes back to you if you put the time in.
"I feel dangerously ad hoc."
Octavia
 
Posts: 644
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 11:21 pm


Return to Science Communication